JAY IS INVADING URANUS

jay_156 seems to have gone to the LordMercifulVoo School of Simplistic Debating. (accreditation pending) I think we all know what that must have been like:

Voo towers in his wizard robes, outstretched arms casting dancing shadows in the torch-lit hall. "Now, as we know, all debates are decided definitively by definitions in a dictionary! And you must decide in advance to only consider the definition that most supports your argument!" Jay fiendishly scribbles the words of timeless wisdom in his notepad. The foil stars and half-moons taped to Voo's robe glitter and glint. "Jay, you must remember to never allow discussion of alternate definitions, or difficult applications! Simply declare yourself the victor, because the dictionary agrees with you, and you agree with the dictionary!" Voo raises his arms triumphantly over his head as his final pronouncement echoes and finally fades. He holds the pose a for a few silent seconds. "Ok, people, let's break for lunch."

jay_156 is not much of a debater. He clearly thinks very highly of his ability, but there's something missing in the execution. It's like stepping up to the facades used in movie productions. They look faux-realistic from a distance, but close up they're flat, rickety, and held together with wire and duct tape. Much like jay's arguments. Voo can passably pull off this debate style, but that is only because he overwhelms the conversation with aggressive, surprisingly graphic gay-centric insults. Jay, although perhaps as fascinated with gay sex as Voo, doesn't have the presence to make it work. Let's take a look at yet another failed argument:

jay_156: Clinton did invade Iraq....you just choose to believe that its ok to kill with bombs mcgoo
DrMcgoo: jay u nuts
DrMcgoo: jay clinton never invade iraq lolllll
jay_156: explain to me how the bombs that killed Iraqis was somehow more humane than the bullets that killed them
DrMcgoo: jay u dont know what u talking about
DrMcgoo: take a sit jay
jay_156: explain it tom me mcgoo
jay_156: explain how Clinton's bombs were so fucking humane
Jesus Claus: jay, many of the 3800 civilians who died in the past 3 months were tortured and DrMcgoo: jay bombing and invading its not the same
jay_156: prove it Claus
Jesus Claus: by shia militias
Jesus Claus: prove it?
DrMcgoo: jay u are clueless
jay_156: so bombing is ok right mcgoo?
Jesus Claus: it's in the news reports
jay_156: so its not really Iraqi lives that you're interested in...its how you kill them
DrMcgoo: its not ok jay
DrMcgoo: jay tell me when did clinton invaded iraq
Jesus Claus: some had drill makrs, burn marks, they were bound and beheaded
DrMcgoo: give me a date
Jesus Claus: killed by sectarian militias
jay_156: the second he sent a bomb over Mcgoo
Jesus Claus: it is a civil war
Jesus Claus: and we are in the middle of it
DrMcgoo: bombing is not invading lol
jay_156: I dare you to ask a single Iraqi who lost a loved one due to Clinton's bombs and you ask them if they feel like they were invaded
Jesus Claus: jay, they do not like us now
DrMcgoo: they will tell u no they werent invaded jay
jay_156: you've asked Mcgoo?
Jesus Claus: jay, recent polls prove it
DrMcgoo: jay go sit in the corner
jay_156: mcgoo, you've asked?
Jesus Claus: the iraqis are very angry at coalition forces
jay_156: lol..Claus saw a poll...now he knows
jay_156: what a fucking child you are Claus
Jesus Claus: jay, hahahahaha
DrMcgoo: iraqis didnt see american troops in iraq jay
jay_156: you saw a fucking poll...what a fucking child
Jesus Claus: the same poll the repukes pointed to a while ago to prove the iraqis loved us
jay_156: mcgoo...ask some of them
DrMcgoo: jay u not making sense as usual
jay_156: and the same polls you pointed to that assured a kerry victory? LOL
Jesus Claus: jay, uh...what?
jay_156: mcgoo...you claimed to know what they think about it....Im asking you how do you know?
Jesus Claus: hahahahahahahahaha
DrMcgoo: jay thats reality
jay_156: Im talking about the reliability of your fucking polls Claus
jay_156: and how do you know that mcgoo?
Jesus Claus: does it occur to you that the people that run a poll in iraq are NOT the same as American polling agencies?
jay_156: unless you've been there and you've asked...you dont fucking know
jay_156: so take your own fucking advice and sit down mcgoo

Oh, jay? That would be this poll:

BAGHDAD — Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm, and a solid majority support an immediate military pullout even though they fear that could put them in greater danger, according to a new USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll. The nationwide survey, the most comprehensive look at Iraqi attitudes toward the occupation, was conducted in late March and early April. It reached nearly 3,500 Iraqis of every religious and ethnic group.

The poll shows that most continue to say the hardships suffered to depose Saddam Hussein were worth it. Half say they and their families are better off than they were under Saddam. And a strong majority say they are more free to worship and to speak.But while they acknowledge benefits from dumping Saddam a year ago, Iraqis no longer see the presence of the American-led military as a plus. Asked whether they view the U.S.-led coalition as "liberators" or "occupiers," 71% of all respondents say "occupiers."

That figure reaches 81% if the separatist, pro-U.S. Kurdish minority in northern Iraq is not included. The negative characterization is just as high among the Shiite Muslims who were oppressed for decades by Saddam as it is among the Sunni Muslims who embraced him. The growing negative attitude toward the Americans is also reflected in two related survey questions: 53% say they would feel less secure without the coalition in Iraq, but 57% say the foreign troops should leave anyway. Those answers were given before the current showdowns in Fallujah and Najaf between U.S. troops and guerrilla fighters. The findings come as the U.S. administration is struggling to quell the insurgency and turn over limited sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government by the end of June. Interviews this week in Baghdad underscored the findings.

"I'm not ungrateful that they took away Saddam Hussein," says Salam Ahmed, 30, a Shiite businessman. "But the job is done. Thank you very much. See you later. Bye-bye." Bearing the brunt of Iraqis' ill feeling: U.S. troops. The most visible symbol of the occupation, they are viewed by many Iraqis as uncaring, dangerous and lacking in respect for the country's people, religion and traditions. The insurgents, by contrast, seem to be gaining broad acceptance, if not outright support. If the Kurds, who make up about 13% of the poll, are taken out of the equation, more than half of Iraqis say killing U.S. troops can be justified in at least some cases. But attacks against Iraqi police officers, who are U.S.-trained, are strongly condemned by the Iraqi people.

So, the Iraqis are angry at us, want us to leave, like the insurgents, and support our troops being killed. Oh yeah, jay, things are going great. Spectacular. I'm ready to buy retail property in downtown Baghdad right away, things are so super swell over there. And the bodies being dumped in the street, tortured and beheaded? Well, I'll just put a sign out front: "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Head, No Service."

DrMcgoo: jay clinton invaded lol
DrMcgoo: i'm laughing jay
jay_156: he ivaded with bombs
jay_156: he invaded with bombs
DrMcgoo: no he didnt jay
jay_156: the fact that his invasion doesnt meet your "definition" of invasion doesnt mean shit to me
jay_156: it just shows you are a fucking hypocritical idiot
DrMcgoo: jay do u know the definition of invading?
jay_156: yep...its a bombardment of something not wanted
jay_156: Id say those bombs meet that definition
DrMcgoo: no its not jay
jay_156: sure it is
DrMcgoo: invasion has only one definition
DrMcgoo: taking a country jay
DrMcgoo: did clinton took the country of iraq jay?
DrMcgoo: jay u dont know what u talking about
jay_156: The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
jay_156: A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease
DrMcgoo: invasion= taking out the country jay
jay_156: I just posted the dictionary definition of ivasion
jay_156: invasion
jay_156: A large-scale onset of something injurious or harmful, such as a disease
DrMcgoo: yes jay to took the country out
Jesus Claus: did you post the definition of invasion in the UN charter?
DrMcgoo: a disease will take a country
jay_156: wouldnt you say that bombs would be a large scale onset of something injurous or harmful?
DrMcgoo: no jay
jay_156: you dont think those bombs were intended to conquer?
DrMcgoo: thats the difference
jay_156: if they werent intended to conquer...what were the purpose of the bombs?
DrMcgoo: jay ask urself that question
jay_156: of course they were intended to conquer
jay_156: therefore...it was an invasion
DrMcgoo: clinton got saddam jay?
Jesus Claus: hahahahahahahahaha
jay_156: it was a large scale onset of something injurious or harmful
Jesus Claus: jay, that's fucking paltry
Jesus Claus: hahahahahahahhaha
DrMcgoo: non sense jay
jay_156: sucess has nothing to do with the definition
jay_156: its intent....not outcome
DrMcgoo: jay...cant u bomb a country without invading it answer that
jay_156: Ive defeated you soundly mcgoo....you can go home now
DrMcgoo: jay no u didnt....and u talking about ur history u dont even know about it
jay_156: no, once again really slowly mcgoo....bombing is invasion
DrMcgoo: jay clinton never invade iraq loll
jay_156: bombing is the large scale onset of something harmful. if you dont like it...argue with the dictionary
DrMcgoo: jay...read it slowly....clinton never invaded iraq
jay_156: lets go over the definition one more time and you tell me what part of it the bombing didnt take care of
jay_156: did the bombings create the onset of injury or harm mcgoo?
DrMcgoo: bombing dont mean invasion jayyyyyyyyyyy
DrMcgoo: are u nuts?
jay_156: answer the question mcgoo
jay_156: did the bombing create the onset of injury or harm?
jay_156: did the bombing create an intrusion in the lives of the Iraqis?
jay_156: yes or no?
DrMcgoo: jay learn ur shit b4 talking about it
jjay_156: mcgoo...Im reading to you from the dictionary
jay_156: and you havent answered my questions
DrMcgoo: ur dictionary dont mean squad
jay_156: oh...the dictionary doesnt matter...but your opinion does?
jay_156: lol mcgoo....you've been beaten like a drum
DrMcgoo: invasion is invasion jay
DrMcgoo: bombing is bombing
jay_156: and Clitnon's bombing constitutes invasion
jay_156: bombing is invasion you dumb ass lol
DrMcgoo: not of the country jay
jay_156: of course of the country
jay_156: what the fuck do you think he was bombing?
jay_156: absolutely it is
jay_156: it fits the definition of invasion....that is the argument
DrMcgoo: jay tell me when did clinton invaded iraq
jay_156: when he bombed it mcgoo
DrMcgoo: jay invasion means?????
DrMcgoo: taking over the country
jay_156: invasion means...a large scale onset of something injurous or harmful
DrMcgoo: did clinton took over the country of iraq?
jay_156: invasion doesnt mean taking over a country
DrMcgoo: u nut nut jay
LordMercifulVoo: Well, invasion does NOT mean CONQUER.
DrMcgoo: tell me how clinton invaded iraq jay
LordMercifulVoo: Invasion means INTRUSION, and that is it.
LordMercifulVoo: Invasion does NOT mean CONQUER.
LordMercifulVoo: Invasion does NOT mean CONTROL!
LordMercifulVoo: Invasion does NOT mean DICTATE.
DrMcgoo: it means getting inside the country
DrMcgoo: clinton never invade iraq u nut
DrMcgoo: jay u talking non sense
Jesus Claus: Clinton never put a boot on the ground in Iraq
jay_156: you dont have to put a boot on ground to invade
jay_156: I dont care if Voo agrees with me either...Im right here
DrMcgoo: clinton never invade iraq
jay_156: most of the room agrees with me lol
DrMcgoo: jay u dont know ur own history what a shame
jay_156: I know Clinton invaded Iraq...you seem not to know that or not to admit that
Jesus Claus: hahahahahahaha

Like I said, Voo-caliber argumentation. Did you notice how jay conveniently slid by the first definition of "invasion"? He half-heartedly tried to make that "conquer" caveat disappear, but he knew enough to recognize it wasn't going to work. In fact, as jay should know, Clinton took over a no-fly zone program from Bush Sr. The bombing was intended to prevent Saddam from moving militarily against both the Kurds in the north and the Shia in the south. The bombing was in no way meant to conquer Iraq. There is simply no way that by stretching or mangling the definitions of words you'll be able to convince us that using bombing to hem Saddam in is the same thing as an invasion. And, even if you did believe that, you 'd have to admit that Clinton was merely maintaining the "invasion" started by Bush Sr.

Guys, let's get real here. Let's lay all the cards out on the table. The only reason jay is fudging around with the definition of "invasion" is that he wants you to believe that the massive, festering blunder that Dubya got us into is no different than what Clinton did. Do I detect the warbling cry of the Yellow-Striped Chickenhawk? "CLINTONDIDDITOO! CLINTONDIDDITTOO!" Come on jay, you're trying to convince us that a shot glass filled with tap water is the same as the fucking Atlantic Ocean. Nice try. Go sell that shit over at Voo U. We 're not buying it.

JC