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Thursday, June 29, 2006

DISPATCH FROM THE FRONT LINES

Our newest correspondent, Livid, has sent over his latest story from the Maginot line that is 2 Way Street Politics:

I’ve been troubled of late because of chat room conversation in the political rooms surrounding issues of virtually no import, and certainly no relevance to the topics being discussed in the rooms, ie. politics. While all sorts of individuals including liberals, moderates, conservatives, neocons, etc. are guilty of this, the lapse seems to have overtaken some more than others. Virginia1776 is a prime example.

Recently I saw a debate between her and one of the roomies in both text and the mic that extended itself to what seemed like a couple of hours. The topic? Some sort of disagreement about “measurement” terms, exponential vs. logarithmic, as I recall. Afterward she even put some inane response in her blog that she then posted in the room, apparently hoping it would be read. Her blog made no sense at all, nor did it even seem to deliver any real point except her claim she was right and her combatant was wrong, but it appears she is more interested in endless debate about topics of “suspect” relevance, caring not a whit about if it adds value to the room, or interest to others. It seems she is more interested in the “appearance” she is right, no matter the topic, much as a small child will argue indefinitely and selfishly about some self centered matter that is of niggling importance.

I’ve often seen her completely misinterpret what speakers or text writers say, simply to provide herself with a reason to initiate an argument that has little or nothing to do with any topic at hand, and that certainly does nothing at all to make any sort of progress toward a productive environment. While it’s true she’s emotionally a child, she’s not stupid. It is very difficult to believe she can be so diametrically in opposition to the true meaning and content of words spoken and written in simple language without doing it intentionally and disingenuously. Yesterday it was my turn in the box with the child, and while it’s not my first time, I am very much aware I am not alone in that respect. I’ve learned over time simply just to tune her out, even while she throws little tantrums about not being paid enough attention, when she resorts to insults and expletives and degrading comments in an attempt to gain your response to whatever miniscule issue she wishes to discuss. The scene was as follows:

The conversation in 2 Way Street Politics, both in text and at the mic, generally centered around Iraq, Iran, Israel, and the Middle East as it relates to war and terrorism. Tossed into the mix were comments about the difficulties in Africa regarding refugees, and the civil strife that permeates the area, as well as associated commentary about the US policies as they relate to these regions and their problems. It was a serious conversation, addressing lost lives and resources of shattering nature that deserve the attention of all of us.

The next thing I know, Virginia makes the claim in text that the Roman Empire was tolerant of “other” religions during its reign. I’m guessing it was in response to someone who disagreed with her on some small matter. How she concluded this issue could supersede the topic at hand’s vital importance is beyond my comprehension for anyone with even the most minimal awareness. Since we know Caesar and various incarnations of Roman rulers were thought to be Gods of a sort and to be worshiped “above” any religion or God, I responded in text something to the affect, “Yeah, that whole crucifixion of Christ ‘thingie” was very tolerant!” Having seen her attempts to distract from the very real issues of the day, I’d tired of her flights of fantasy enough to have responded in that manner. Well, that set Virginia askew and the churlishly crude and patronizing reaction from her was quick and not unexpected. That’s what she does when she’s confronted with the truth. She attacks. By the way, that reaction happens to fall within one of the principle reactions of fascism, to attack, knowing full well she was wrong, but to attack nevertheless, basically ignoring all evidence in order to “appear” to be right. It’s also the method of a self-centered mind.

We know the Romans allowed Christ to be killed, and could easily have disallowed it. After all, they were the masters of the Jews and the High Priest(s) held sway at the largesse of Rome. We know the Romans had a “problem” with Christianity because of its belief in only one God. The Romans had a religion of their own, not based on any central belief, but on a mixture of fragmented rituals, taboos, superstitions, and traditions which they collected over the years from a number of sources. They simply did not trust another religion so different from their own, and like modern cultures, persecuted that which they did not understand.

Not long after the death of Christ, edicts were written and enforced which severely persecuted Christians by ordering churches destroyed, books burned, priests jailed, and even household servants deprived of their liberty if they persisted in professing Christian belief. Christians were forbidden to assemble and were placed outside the law. Those who refused to sacrifice to the gods were imprisoned, tortured, and killed. There’s that whole Christian and lion thing we’ve all been taught about as well. About 300 years (or a bit more) after Christ’s death, Rome determined a more liberal policy toward Christians, mostly because of a couple of incidents.

First, the Roman ruler Galerius issued an edict shortly before his death in which he explained the persecution and then granted tolerance to the Christian religion. He believed his fatal illness was the vengeance of the Christian God. Second, while on his way to Rome with his army to battle Maxentius for control of the western empire, Constantine saw a cross in the sky over the sun, with the message, "In This Conquer." He ordered his soldiers to mark on their shields the first two letters of the Greek word for Christ (chi, rho) and put a cross-bar on their flag staffs to make them resemble Christian crosses. He was victorious in battle at the Milvian Bridge over the Tiber River and considered his victory confirmation of his decision to endorse Christianity. However, a couple of years later, the tolerance begun by these events fell into disfavor with changing politics and rulers within Rome, and it was back to square one again, and off and on this went for a period of time, along with other events too complex and numerous for this writing.

In any case, rather than embark on a never ending argument with Virginia, I simply ignored her, absorbing the taunts she threw without response. Yes, it annoyed her no end, but like the child who throws the tantrum, or holds its breath, she eventually tired of it. However, I came away from her assault, one among many perpetrated upon me and others with some distressing observations. That distress is based not on anything so much as my concern for helpful, productive dialog in chat rooms ostensibly formed to discuss and seek solutions to the problems in the world today. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I always felt these rooms were there to assist us in the consideration of important and critical issues of the world, to allow the free flow of ideas and opinions in order that we can better educate ourselves and one another so that we can be better citizens of our country and of the world, and so we can contribute what we can to that end, both within the chat rooms, and in our daily lives.

I see Virginia’s obsession with arguing simply to be noticed, only to satisfy her own need, to gratify some childish set of emotions, as being an obstacle to that. I realize she’s very young, has almost no experience beyond the protected shell of her existence heretofore, and I recall possessing a somewhat similar lack of character and maturity when I was much younger than her. However, she’s now in her early twenties, and perhaps it’s time for her to learn things that books cannot teach. Consider this. While the chat room was involved in a discussion of issues that threaten hundreds of thousands of lives, either because of violence or famine or disease or displacement of entire cultures, Virginia wanted to debate whether the Roman Empire was tolerant or not. I made it very clear I didn’t wish to pursue her agenda, but she was like the puppy with a bone she would not and could not relinquish.

Where is the maturity of priority? Certainly by now she should have begun to understand adults cannot cling to childish ways, and in order to truly gain wisdom, must relinquish that which is self-serving and prideful, to another level of thought, more complex and textured, with more depth and volume, which can and does allow for one to grow to be a much stronger, much wiser, more productive human being. She does not yet know the joys of this expansion of mind and spirit, and so therefore knows not what she misses by eluding it, and perhaps she’ll end up like a lot of others we’ve seen who have passed through these rooms, and may never feel the elation of truth and moral knowledge that is within us all if we seek it. Unless and until she opens herself to this, she cannot realize but a fraction of her potential, nor anything but a fraction of the happiness it can and does bring.

If her behavior were infrequent, it could be dismissed as lapses in judgment or temporary backsliding into immaturity. However, it happens much too often for that to be true. It’s intentional and she endeavors to force her agenda on others any time she finds the opportunity. The key is to avoid providing her that opportunity. A tip here for those of you with compassion for someone such as Virginia, whether you’re a friend or just someone interested in helping others overcome their own self inflicted obstacles in the hopes than humankind can improve their lot. She will continue to be stuck in the mire of her own making unless she begins to see the affect of her behavior upon herself. The best way to do that is to avoid conversation with her (until she “gets” it) when she falls into her self-serving routine. What do parents do when their children act out? They give them a time out because a kid hates not being able to socialize more than anything. That’s the only way Virginia will learn as well. Anything else simply feeds the consuming behavior that is already rapidly becoming second nature to her.

This behavior will not serve her well when eventually she is forced to confront the real world.If you truly have compassion for her (and others, some of whom are even older than her), you’ll demonstrate the same limitations parents do with their children, hoping you can provide them with the tools they need to be productive and happy adults in a world so badly in need of wisdom and understanding. No, you don’t need to be rude to her; just don’t nourish her lack of decency by doing what she wants you to do. Just don’t get caught up in the distraction she seeks to burden you with. She’s very good at trickery though, which is something one can fall into if you’re not alert. We all have our pride and ego, and she works on that. Whatever the reason for her stunted emotional growth, it is disruptive to productive and progressive activity, and ultimately is harmful to her. For her own good and the good of the room, as well as for the good that can go beyond the chat rooms, in the long term, it’s a far better thing you do by helping her now, than to continue to allow her to go down a road to nowhere, a road without soul, without peace, without wisdom, without growth, and without truly understanding love and consideration for others.

Contributed by: Livid

36 comments:

Anonymous said...

Do you all really know anything about whats going on in the world or just about trashing others personally? Lets hear some of your own views rather than trashing others.

Another anonymous poster.

Anonymous said...

More Liberal Nonsense by folks who only know how to complain and whine like Claus and Livid. Comne on dudes, let the personal attacks go and try to come up with something substantive. Don't you have anything better to do or are you just intellectually challenged, morally bankrupt, and politically impotent like many paltalkers?

Unknown said...

Actually, Livid first powderized Virginia's argument with a sledgehammer before addressing the larger issues. You should try being right about something sometime. It feels great. :)

Anonymous said...

How would you know Claus?

Anonymous said...

You know Livid, I can understand the stupidity that Claus constantly espouses; he is just a boy who thinks its cool to insult adults and use swear words to assert his foolish youth; but, you are old enough to know better. Grow up man and leave the children alone!

Anonymous said...

Livid here... Gosh, I offer a solution to what obviously troubles Virginia and suddenly I'm overrun with Nazis. They leave no names but I think I see a few sheets covering them with the eyes cut out..... snickering.

Anonymous said...

Diogenic here. Funny thing Livid, how those responding to your posting don't comments about your actual commentary, but rather savage you for writiing anything at all. Knowing aforehand that they don't seem to like you or your views, they read anyway to only have something to complain about; not the contents, but the author. Probably those anynonymous commenters don't like wasp stings either, so why aren't they playing with a wasps nest so they have something real to complain about. Say Livid? You like plaid right? Well, I like paisley, so you must be a LIBERAL!!!
heh heh...

ononotagain said...

Livid, welcome aboard rattler, it's a heck of a ride! I agree with your observation of one of the most annoying (or enjoyable) aspects of a public room....the public!.... Each of us are individuals with our own peculiar outlook and agenda, so making friends, or even just having a decent conversation in a public chat room setting usually boils down to how tolerant we are prepared to be. Having said that, I am as guilty as anyone for trading personal insults when the debate drifts into nonsense.
P.S. to the anonymouses, piss weak! (They leave no names but I think I see a few sheets covering them with the eyes cut out)

MysticSeaMaiden said...

First Livid welcome to the rattler. Next I know what you are talking about and your article is well stated, pay no mind to those that cannot see the forest due to the trees. You have made a very valid point here. Lately it seems as though some people just want to bash and not discuss issues. It is sad that so many cannot debate an issue, therefore teaching and learning, but they would rather do the little personal attacks and reach even higher levels of pettiness and immaturity.
I love this posting can't wait to see more. Again Welcome aboard and Bravo

Anonymous said...

Livid is king of the personal insults. That's why his comments hold no merit.

Anonymous said...

Livid, you're not the only one tired of the puny minds of children disrupting the room. You are right about the person you write about here too, Virginia. Your point is well taken. Thanks for the entry.

Anonymous said...

yeh,,,livid is a real big man,, he has to have his ass-packing pal {claus} to post for him,,, tehetehe

S_LINK90 said...

lol.
listen to LIVID the cyber tough guy,,,,,.
"it's just a punk neocon who wets himself at the thought I would come after him in person if I knew who he was".
you realy think he wets himself livid? hehe.
fact is livid is your an old man and by sound of your timid voice on the mic would tell most you are no threat to anyone anymore,,,maybe some little old lady,,,,maybe,, lol.
i would tell you to grow up livid,,but its a little to late for that,,,isnt it,,,,.lol.

Anonymous said...

Yes, S_Link, you are correct. There is no hope for Livid. Jesus Claus is but a mere boy in Power Ranger underwear. At least when he grows up he may see the light. I fear he won't if he keeps hanging around the likes of Livid. What a shame.

S_LINK90 said...

LOL,, POWER RANGER UNDEWEAR LOL.
DONT FORGET GARANIMALS AND UNDEROOS,,,,,,
HEY LIVID,, GO HERE http://www.garanimals.com/whats_hot.htm AND PICK SOMETHING OUT FOR CLAUS FOR HIS "BIRFDAY",,, DONT FORGET THE HUGGIES,, LMAO.

Anonymous said...

HEHE POOR LIVID.
LOL

IsabellaSays said...

ok.. this is turning into a circus.. virg is no different from any other chatter in 2way.. we all fuss and fued... why pick on her because of her age????

if she presents a problem with her responses, perhaps you should hang up your debate hat, dontcha think?

everyone has their views, don't try to take virg's opinion away from her because of her age.

this is getting to be grade A bullshit

S_LINK90 said...

i agree,,,livid and claus have issues,,,,

IsabellaSays said...

livid? i want to keep a nice dialogue with you , but, if i went back to your post on the blog entry.. i could copy and paste ALL the references to her AGE.... comprendi?

It is what it is..
and that's too bad.. she's young.. so what?

S_LINK90 said...

well livid,, did you ever think it may be because she,,along with other get tired of hearing your repetitive bullshit?
{ i think that may be it }

MysticSeaMaiden said...

OK I see what Livid was saying, did a few others here miss it? Virginia was not in a debate over issues she instead turned the room which was going pretty smothly into a discussion of small things. She talked about how the Romans were tolerant (which simply is not a fact at all). The point (I think) of this posting was to show how chat rooms (not picking out just one) have fallen into a dark place of insults and avoidance of issues at hand. Now it seems that some on the right are feeling the fear of themselves being wrong. Instead of being decent and mature and saying hey I think I might have been misled, they choose instead to take over a room with small, petty, and inessential sparrings.

Paltalk is a way for many to express their thoughts, yet it seems that is being limited by people that for whatever reasons need to be the center of attention.

Now chatters such as Virginia should not take all the blame, for others allow it to happen by engaging in such pettifogs.

Now as some have mention here we all have at one time or another lower ourselves to engage in such silly battles of words.

Now what is amazing to me is the attack Livid has receieved for this posting. He made some very valid points that most could learn from. To ignore those that just come to disrupt a room or to become the center of attention is to remove that very power from them. Honestly how many times have you been in a room and it is taken over by one person, do you really enjoy being in tht room after a while? In very few comments here have I seen anyone say anything but rude remarks. Now it seems as though Slink has made this a personal battle between him and Livid, for what reason I still do not know. I do know from personal experience ones that try to expand their views often get attacked and/or banned on paltalk. Livid I hope that you will not allow the voice of a few to stop you from posting. You have a marvelous way with the written word.

To others I ask, why are you attacking him for stating his thoughts? Do you fear what he is saying or perhaps you feel inadequate in your abilities to debate real issues? Perhaps it is something more deeper, but whatever it is some truly are showing their immaturity that belies their ages.

Well I guess that is all I have to say on this topic for now.

Anonymous said...

Well, Well, Well,

Where do I begin? For Livid to say it's not about Virginia is like Claus saying its not about insults. Do you know how to talk about a subject with another person without attacking them? From what I have seen in the Paltalk rooms, its impossible for you. It shows a lack of confidence in your own opinions and points. What's funny is that we can see right through you and the likes of you, and you're too stupid to know it.

The Muse keeps chiming in with her "attaboys" while complaining about anonymous posters. I have yet to see the muse post anything of substance. She's a self glorified yes man. So, until you and your comrades can comment on an issue instead of other people, you will continue to be chastised. Deal baby!

Anonymous said...

"That means she's allowed to lie, cheat, steal, distract, spin (s'link's favorite word, one he should know well since he tries to do that "unsuccessfully" so often), and twist the truth as to be completely unrecognizable,"

This is what you're doing, so really what you complain about is not being able to do it on someone else's blog? Get your own blog stupid. Waaa waaa waaa.

The choice to remain anonymous is freedom to drive already psychotic people even further into insanity. It's a game and I win. Gotta love it. Keep guessing. You dont have the right three. bwahha hhaaa haaha ahhhbwaahhhh

Michelle said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Michelle said...

I have sat here and read all of these comments (28 in all), and I am wondering, actually I am amazed that people, especially liberals or people on the left waste their time speaking to people on the right. You can say the same points over and over again. You can try to help them understand what you were trying to express in your writing. You can try to give them the education that the American school system evidently failed to accomplish. Yet!!! They still don't get it, or they mold it and twist it until they change it in a way that they can comprehend the matter. You all can go on with this post for days, but they won't get the point about immaturity in Paltalk. Their snipe comments are an example of this. This man Livid and a few others made very educated and specific points to back up their opinions. The ones that opposed those views could barely form a full paragragh or came back with childish remarks. This reminds me of the Cheney and Bush comedy duo. Whenever there is a major issue brought up by the press, they seem to turn it into a circus and want to make jokes about the very serious issues that are confronted. I wonder why the right think the state of our nation is such a joke. To say Jesus Claus is immature is pure rubbish, you all can't even make a point without throwing a (hehehe or lol) into all of your rants. It is time for all of you to grow up and stop judging someone on their voice on the mic or age. Look at the substance. I have my own opinions of Virginia too. She is an intelligent young lady that associates herself with trash. It is unfortunate that she has fallen or chose this path to take in her life.

Anonymous said...

Michelle tried so hard to make a point, but all she did was trash others like she's complaining others do. You libs never change.

By the way, Michelle, in Livid's post on the blog, all he did was trash Virginia, who indeed, is a very articulate, smart woman. Did you read it? Even if Livid could teach anyone anything, his effort was not to educate, but to attack. Try again, Michelle.

Anonymous said...

livid sexy man

u spend too much time and energy on people who have no sense. i bought u a glass of merlot two saturdays ago in CL, and would love to take u away from all this. u seemed to find me attractive that night (remember your hand on my waist?)and i shant go further, but u did give me your nic and i have been to your room enuf to find my way here. so this is what u do with spare time? i have other ideas if you're interested and will be back at that same place tonite. no politics tho! eightish or so?

people like to be anonymous here so guess who livid hun.. grinz

Anonymous said...

Livid said, "I'll be wrong a bunch of times, but if I am, it won't be because I haven't tried my hardest to be honest and fair and as much as possible, helpful."

Someone pass me a barf bag! That is the biggest bit of bullshit I have ever witnessed! Livid, I have seen you in chat rooms and all you can do is attack other people who are known to disagree with your views. I am not who you think I am. Im not even sure WHO you think I am but, I will give you a clue. You have publicly trashed me on mic. Oh, but you have trashed so many!!! Which one of us could it be? hehehee.. Youre on the wrong track.. I win!

Anonymous said...

Livid,

Why would you think there are only three anonymous posters on this blog?

If you only knew the laughs I am having at your expense.

Anonymous said...

Remember the old show Hogan's Hero's? The commander with the spectacle used to say... "You, know NOTHING!"

You really dont know what youre talking about, but that's beside the point. The point is, if you are going to trash others, beware you be trashed yourself. If you dish it out, be prepared to take it. Livid, you chose to trash Virginia. Many others have been attacked in the pages of this blog for a long time. You lie, and attack people on a daily basis, and your fan club jumps in like its a dance. Its time you took your medicine like man. I remain anonymous because I can... it pisses you off... and it works.

Just a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down, the medicine go down. Try a little sugar now and then Livid. The vinegar is souring your attitude.

Anonymous said...

ha! If my comments mean nothing why are you so obsessed with them and who may be anonymous. I gave you a clue as to who I am, but you cant figure it out!

You should stop making up lies about people. You cant think that kind of behavior goes un-noticed? Look unto yourself to see who is cowardly. Hiding behind lies is worse than remaining anonymous. Good luck, and happy blogging!

Sincerely,
Anonymous

AnonymousPoster said...

Your obsession and my notation of it draws more fire than ever. I knew it would. I have attacked you anonymously and it ruffled your feathers. I have hung over your head but you didnt exactly know how to get to me. I have threatened your sense of security. I have meticulosly hacked at your safety net. You knew I would strike, but not when or how. You didnt know where or how to attack. You didnt know your next plan of action. Its hard to attack a faceless enemy. Its easy to make up lies about someone but you have to know a little about someone in order for others to believe your lies about them. You have to have intell to know what your plan of action should be. How does it feel Livid? You have had an insurgent in your blog and you didnt know it. You still cant see me. You still dont know who I am, yet I threaten you. You dont know how far I will go to show your weakness. You finally took action by blocking anonymous comments on this blog. There could be more attacks, but where? You dont know, do you? It was an experiment to show you and your friends how easy it is for terrorists to get to us. I still can get to you now. You used the forces you had to make a move against me. You tried to get information from the chat room. You watched as each poster in the room made their points, wondering if he or she was the anonymous poster. I have lurked in the rooms, watching you. I have gathered information on you in order to attack you. It worked. I got to you. You can see on a minute scale how terrorism can creep into any aspect of our lives. We arent safe. We need the govt and its intelligence gathering entities to use whatever they can to keep us safe. We need an army to fight them where we know they are. Perhaps you should stop attacking others for their views and lets all work together to fight terrorism and keep our fellow Americans, whatever their views, safe from terrorists. You and your cronies fight against anyone who doesnt think like you. Terrorists love that kind of infighting. You are part of it. You are responsible for it. If you have a brain, use it. Think about it. I am not the person you think I am. You arent even close. You should stop attacking coops, and s_link and virginia. They are innocent. You most likely will never figure out who I am. I got to you. You hate it. Terrorists got to us, and we hate it. Think about it Livid, Claus, Ono and Muse. Your divisive measures to kick the other side create an environment that allows terrorism to breed. You should think about uniting the country instead of dividing it. I remain anonymous, and I still win.

MysticSeaMaiden said...

Amazing that some speak of spin and courage when they lack the very ability to show even the smallest trace of courage. So many have their little 'fights' to distract from the reality of our world today. Here is the fact PEOPLE ARE DYING!!!!!! Yet some think their little pettiness is of such greater importance. Enough GROW UP!! Why not do something helpful like hold a mother's hand as she wepts over the lost of her child. Perhaps you can rock a babe to sleep that no longer has a Mother, or hell even say I'm sorry for your lost?

No that would be leaving your little world and seeing the pain and death that Bush's admins has brought to us all.

So you go ahead continue interupting dicussions that could just maybe help those in pain. For we all know you think your little made up troubles are so much more painful than a lost of a child or parent.

AnonymousPoster said...

Discussions that could help those in pain? Have you been paying attention? My made up troubles are so much more important than the loss of a child? Where have you been? Nothing of the sort has been discussed. Muse, your last post just leaves one scratching their head wondering if youre really paying attention. Ever been in a meeting and someone makes a comment thats just so off the wall it makes everyone fall silent for a moment trying to figure out if the person is serious or trying to make a joke....youre that person. Facetious doesnt hide stupid.

MysticSeaMaiden said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
MysticSeaMaiden said...

Ok it has now become very visible that you have not read the original thread. This began by Virginia interrupting a much needed discussion in 2way with her own petty needs to be the center of attention. So now that you have exposed yourself as one that did not bother to read this thread I see no reason to continue this silly talk with you. You are one that just wants to throw out insults and not as self defense either. You come into this blog to KEEP making yourself the center of attention. As Livid mentioned at the beginning of this thread what one does with a child that keeps acting up for attention is to give them a time out.

Way I see it childish actions deserve treatment as such. I hope you enjoy talking to yourself from this moment on. See I have noticed that you do not comment on issues of importance, just insults do you know how to give.

Yes I know that you will come back here and post that you have won, but before you do what is it that you have won?

Have you helped a single person in pain, have you gained any knowledge of the war and the horrific things occurring because of it? Have you felt compassion or even the tiniest bit of understanding? Have you expanded your mind or opened your heart? The answers to these questions sadly, imho is NO. You did however manage to take away those that attack this blog's ability to say no one reads or responds to it (thank you btw). You did accomplish going off topic of this thread and having some of us (myself included) to waste our time and energy replying to your childish insults (although at the time I did have hope you would be able to see past your selfishness and learn a bit).

At this time i feel sorry for you that this is the only way you have to make yourself feel validated. I'm sure if you search you could find a way to make yourself a better person that instead of insulting to harm you could help and grow as a person.

Ok with this all said I will close. Now AP go ahead and post your childish insults. Make yourself feel validated, have your empty self-worth filled.
Happy 4th

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