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Tuesday, August 28, 2007


THE United States has 90 guns for every 100 citizens, making it the most heavily armed society in the world, a report released today said.


Eff25 said...

Yeah? And? Paranoia is a term that implies an irrational basis and response to an improbable threat.

A. An individual cannot predict when he will be the exception to a threat, however rare its ocurrence.

B. What it says about our culture aside, crimes, one of the primary reasons for which one would own a gun, exists, and happen with a noticeable degree of regularity.

C. Guns can be effective in self defense and deterrence, as a consequence of their design.

D. C. is based on a contention of the strategic advantage the capabilities of a gun can give a person, based on the physical properties of guns-general, therefor circumstantial matters, with their varying relevancies and greater hypothetical basis, do not refute the gun effectiveness contention.

zipperdedoodah said...

If we are going to have a gun culture, it should be compulsory to carry one if the reasons for doing so are too compelling.

An aside note, the gun ownership ratio in Australia is 15 out of every 100 persons.

weetbix101 said...

Americans just dont get it!
I've never owned a gun and never will and am still alive.
What's with their attraction to guns? beats me!.What's with their obsessions with violence? (look at most of their stupid sitcoms and films)bang bang boom boom bang!
20 millions of these clowns are on prozac and the rest are high on crack or high on their gun ho version of christianity (The compassionate freedom loving christian right is a major driving force behind the current war on Iraq).
They still see themselves as peace and freedom loving citizens of the world (tell that to the 650.000 iraqis or so who are being slaughtered raped and pillaged at this very moment) and who hardly ever get a mention in the US media.Tell that to the million vietnamese who died not so long ago thanks to US agression, tell that to the thousands of latin american people who were tortured by CIA sponsored death squads.The list is too long....i could have mentioned Cambodia, Laos and few others African countries.....
Rationalization of gun ownership and violence thanks to powerful lobby group such as the NRA does a good job at easing their collective conscience but the facts are there for all to see.
Violence,agression and control is part of the American mindset.
Those fools are not to be trusted with guns yet their constitution allows them to own guns.
Go figure.

Anonymous said...

I saw that report and wasn't at all surprised. There are collectors who have hundreds of guns themselves. Someone has "mine" and they can keep it.

"Paranoid Nation" I take exception to. Perhaps "paranoid communities". I've never lived in such an area, so I can't attest to how the people there feel about guns or any other worry. None of my friends or family, here or anywhere else I have lived, have had such paranoia.

I have my own opinions about guns and would be not welcome in the NRA, but I'm always a little amused at how someone not living in the US seems to judge the whole of the society by the number of gun atrocities which get publicized worldwide. We're all just a bunch of Bonnies and Clydes. Heh Heh

Seriously, guns are a problem. So are drugs, so are irresponsible parents, so is poverty, so is laziness, so is envy, so is greed, etc. The list goes on. If we could ban guns, there would be a run on hatchets!

Yes, Eff, guns are QUITE EFFECTIVE!!! May you never be at the wrong end of one.

Eff25 said...

I'll try to respond soon, but I have been a bit sick and slept little in almost two days until recently.

Eff25 said...

The effectiveness of guns for killing doesn't undermine my contention, as killing power is what may be necessary for self preservation; not to fulfill a desire to kill, but to more readily resolve the situation one may be placed into, though not as the only resort.

Of course guns can kill; good. If other weapons enable incapacitation as successfully as guns can, non that I know of do, then they can be considered, though guns still qualify as arms, re the 2nd Amendment.

As for mandating gun ownership, no, I don't agree with that. This isn't a legal issue, aside from the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution, and rights usually allow the right to not use it, so you can choose not to seek redress of greivances against the government. That means gun ownership shouldn't be compelled by the same constitution principle that allows gun ownership, the nature of a right and the freedom to practice it or not.

What is being contested is the claim there is no cause to own a gun, when the very circumstances that a gun is commonly claimed to be useful for do, in fact exist.

Like it or not, this is a freedom issue, the right of self sufficiency for one's own defense, with access to a means fo effecting it, the best, in some circumstances, being a gun.

As I've said several times, and will continue to say, right of defense against intentional harm takes precedence against right of defense from collateral harm. That means that I should be allowed to use a firearm against an assailant, should I deem such use necessary, without prevention because of the potential consequence of an innocent bystander dying; nor can other negative consequences stemming from the manufacture of guns to fulfill demand be justifiable preventions.

Eff25 said...

Also, if you think I am an absolutist who thinks any firearm should be accessible to the general public, I am not. Few of us are, which is evidence that such a characterization is also a demonization.

Eff25 said...

As for American minds, well, I can only speak for my own, and mine says some of you, American or otherwise, have this matter backwards, despite thinking you have it correct. Just societies consider rights before consequences, meaning consequences can only at best mitigate, not destroy, a right, and a right exists, at minimum, as what a fair society does not try to revoke, knowing such actions are indecent to their fellow man.

Anonymous said...

Weetbix (what is that anyway, a doggie biscuit?)...

You have no idea what the mindset of Americans is, what we think or want. To lump a stereotype on millions of people and to assume you know how millions of people think just makes you look like an idiot. Screw you.

As for another person's comment about not being on the wrong end of a gun; many law abiding people have guns to protect them from being on the wrong end of a gun owner who wishes to use it for intentional harm. Pointing your finger at a gun does nothing. You best be prepared. If the government would do something about that problem then Americans wouldnt feel a need to protect themselves.

If our justice system would stop trying to dance in the pansies with the anti gun people and punish people who use guns for crimes, we would all be better off. You anti gun people are the problem, not a solution.

As for you Ono... if you spent more time trying to see whats going on in your own country instead of trashing ours, you would find many of the same problems. Get your head out of the sand.

Weetbix101 said...

U gotta love that word "freedom"
Iraq occupation is about "freedom" for the iraqi people, gun ownership is about "freedom" for the oppressed paranoid rednecks stuck in a times warp when cowboys and indians fought it out on the great plains of the American midwest, "freedom" is for the americans potatoes that no longer want to be called French.
Freedom ,liberty let me sings those words to the tune of amazing grace...1 2 3 take it away SAM

Eff25 said...

I'm not a proponent of the Iraq war; at best a redneck due to location, Virginia, if we should even be counted as rednecks; I didn't call French fries freedom fries.

ononotagain said...

Weetbix is whole grain wheat, steamed, rolled and toasted and formed into small rectangular blocks, best eaten for breakfast with milk and sugar or honey.

Weetbix(101) is also a really nice bloke who frequents paltalk and occasionally appears here on Ratttler.

ononotagain said...

"You anti gun people are the problem, not a solution."

... being anonymous is cowardly.. identify yourself to debate me please.


"As for you Ono... if you spent more time trying to see whats going on in your own country instead of trashing ours, you would find many of the same problems. Get your head out of the sand."

I have consistently said that Australia has very similar problems to those of USA, we are both screwed by rampant capitalistic exploiters.

Take 300 million people out of USA and you would have the population of Australia. The INFECTION is coming from USA. I reiterate my claim... PARANOID NATION!

(I admire the good qualities USA USED to stand for, but you've let it be hijacked. I'm not trashing USA, you've already allowed that to happen)

So sad, most Aussies love our American cousins. Well, we did.

Eff25 said...

Not anonymous on here. All of you know the screen name of the person thus far out reasoning you on this matter.

Q Jordon said...

I have a couple of pistols, but I am the first to say I rarely fire them.

To me, a gun is for self defense, and not to be carried around the streets in a holster for protection.

It is to provide security at your home in case of a break-in, and not to be used as a few people have done it recently in the US for vigilante purposes.

I believe their are some paranoids out there. Of course, they believe the sky is falling, Islam is taking over, and George W. Bush is the best President the US has ever had. No, scratch that. These people are delusional -- my bad.


Facetious Muse said...

I, myself also own a couple of weapons. First thing I would like to say is that study isn't all it seems to be. First of all it implies that 90 people out of an hundred have guns, not true. That is why they imply it and not come right out and say it. The study called I think it was 5000 people and also by gun permits and gun sales they then averaged per person. There are quite a few gun collectors and they do at times own 100 weapons. That is one reason I am upset at this report.

Second reason is how people want to cherry pick the US Constitutional Rights. We do have the right to bear arms.

Third of, have you seen the reports on police in the states abusing their powers, refusing to go on calls dont you all remember Katrina aftermath? The police were part of the problem and not the solution.

To take away even one constitutional right is one too many. In the US 60% of all murders goes unsolved, most cities have a shortage of police thanks to Bush's war and so many seem to forget we do have families in the states that would go hungry if they werent allowed to hunt ( I am not talking about those idiots that hunt for 'sport').

Myself, I was saved from an attack in my own home because I did have a gun, it took the police 45 minutes to arrive after I called them. Lucky for me I only had to shoot in the air for them to leave and this was after me screaming and letting them know I was calling the police. When the police capture the two men trying to get into my home they were found carrying duck tape, rope and a stun gun.

What so many outside the states don't realize we have a major problem with law enforcement and violent criminals being release to make room for weed smokers.

Carry on :o)

Anonymous said...

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" - Amendment 2 of the US Constitution.

Amendment 1 is Freedom of Speech.

What is the argument about? Thank God, the computer allows one to sit and yammer while cleaning his gun! Don't spill that gun oil in the keyboard!

Anonymous said...

What would a weed smoker do with a gun? Get hungry and try to eat it......kinda like a "shredded Wheetbix"? lol

weetbix101 said...

blah blah blah freedom blah blah blah liberty blah blah blah founding fathers blah blah blah.we're americans blah blah blah guns are sexy blah blah blah freedom blah blah blah liberty.
Lets pause for a moment and ask the good lord for forgiveness ...Columbine, shoot out at MCdonalds.... lets salute our wonderful flag and let us have tears in our eyes while we hug for the tv cameras....Done ...Now let us go back being ourselves ...blah blah blah constitution blah blah blah liberty blah blah blah freedom

Eff25 said...

Weet, do you twirl your hair while you debate? Just curious.

Eff25 said...

Bet it's pretty.

weetbix101 said...

eff what have u got against hair twirling? it's not illegal and it helps with my concentration.

Eff25 said...

Have you tried skipping?

Anonymous said...

Last week, a 23 yr old while man was shot outside a small town Walmart because two black men, from another county, were participating in a gang initiation. Their goal was to kill a young white man so that he could not reproduce. They then stole his truck. Who had the upper hand? The men with the guns. I can rightfully assume had the young white man had a gun, the others might have backed off.

A few weeks earlier, a friend was stopped at a gas station pumping gas. A man came up with a gun and tried to rob him. He reached in his truck, pulled out a .44 mag and pointed it in the robbers direction. The robber turned and ran. No robbery, no one shot.

Now, tell me, which would you rather be... the man with no gun that was shot down.. or the man with a gun who didnt get robbed or shot? Me? I stand for my right to protect myself. You can be paranoid if you want to. Not me. I have a plan.

Anonymous said...

stupid plan

Anonymous said...

You got a better one? Come on you antigun people... let's hear your plan on how to protect yourselves against people with guns; most of whom are using with criminal intent and have obtained them illegally.

Let's hear your plan to protect yourself against that.

Weetbix101 said...

ArchieWanker AKA Anonymous your mind is still set in the Wild West!
John Wayne got to your mind earlier on in life, i offer no cure for such a discease but i can refer you to a good shrink.
If you are one of the 50 millions or so of americans who cannot afford psychiatric care you can ease your paranoia and fears by simply taking
short and brisky walks in parks or nature reserves, eating simple food with a healthy dose of vegetables and fruits, spend less times in chatrooms which tend to affect blood pressure levels and unsound reasoning and most importantly cutting down on booze and pills.

Anonymous said...

Im not Archie, although I am flattered.

So, what is your answer?

What's your plan?

Amazing how none of you have an response but to insult someone. Not surprising though.

zombiemaster said...

The rattler proves no answers, just more stupidity.

Anonymous said...

Well, well Zombie, when did you see the light?